The government shutdown is entering its second week, and there is no end in sight as both sides continue to refuse to accept the other’s demands.
Host Martinez:
It’s day 8 of the government shutdown and there really is no end in sight.
Michelle Martin, host:
Democrats continue to insist on a deal to extend subsidies that help people buy health insurance through the Affordable Care Act. Republican lawmakers continue to say they will talk once the government reopens. Meanwhile, President Trump is saying this about the Democratic Party.
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US PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Do you want to know the truth? This is like a kamikaze attack. They have almost nothing to lose.
MARTÍNEZ: NPR’s Domenico Montanaro is looking into whether there’s a way out of this lockdown. So Mr. Domenico, how come the two sides are talking when President Trump says that?
DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Yes. What I mean is, Trump shows no signs of stopping here. I mean, aside from his rhetoric about Democrats, he and his budget director are threatening permanent layoffs of some federal workers and even raising the possibility that the government might not pay back some laid-off workers. That’s something that’s being pretty hotly debated right now. And they are moving to cut off funding from blue states for various projects. As you know, Trump has been trying to give the impression that congressional leaders are talking, but there’s no indication that that’s happening right now. So it seems like a game of chicken, with the administration thinking they can overcome this situation politically and place the blame squarely on the Democrats.
MARTINEZ: Okay. So how are congressional leaders reacting to this?
MONTANARO: Well, the Republicans are asking too much of what the Democrats are asking for. Next is Speaker of the House Mike Johnson.
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MIKE JOHNSON: That’s a ridiculous wish list and big government progressive bullshit that we can’t do anything about.
MONTANARO: You know, Republicans keep saying they want to reopen the government and negotiate. But calling big government liberal nonsense about what Democrats want makes many Democrats skeptical about whether Republicans really want to negotiate. What he wants here is Johnson. In reality, there appears to be a rift forming among Democrats.
MARTINEZ: So is there any evidence that it exists?
Montanaro: To a certain extent. I mean, we saw some people meeting with Democrats who voted with Republicans to reopen the government. They include Senator Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada, John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, and Angus King of Maine. But it didn’t grow. You see, Democrats are banding together because they feel like they have an advantage when it comes to health care. Unlike a decade ago, the Affordable Care Act is actually very popular now. Democratic leaders want to emphasize that they are in favor of extending ACA subsidies, while Republicans are not. Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer was here yesterday.
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CHUCK SCHUMER: The conclusion is very simple. We want them to be extended. They don’t want an extension.
MONTANARO: And we saw House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries challenge Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson to a televised debate on the House floor this week. Johnson refused, needless to say, calling it a “pathetic, publicity stunt.”
MARTINEZ: Are there any signals that tell us which side appears to have an advantage when it comes to convincing voters that they are right or wrong?
Montanaro: Yes. Polls show Republicans are getting more of the blame, but it’s tricky because they’re not close to a majority and there’s a lot of undecided people. Shutdowns typically don’t go over well with those who try to add things that aren’t in the bill, as Democrats do here. For example, President Trump talked about the 2019 shutdown over border wall funding, and eventually he agreed to a short-term government reopening after more than 50% criticized him and air traffic controllers called in sick.
MARTÍNEZ: Mr. Domenico, you see this all the time. Is there any way to get out of this shutdown?
MONTANARO: You know, I – I basically see three scenarios here. First, there is ample crossover among moderate Democratic senators. This can happen when public pressure becomes too much. Second, Republicans do too much with layoffs and other efforts, get more blame for things like airport delays, and feel pressured to negotiate now. Or thirdly, both parties reach a tentative deal and commit to negotiating these subsidies. But ultimately, winning will come down to politics and messaging.
MARTÍNEZ: This is NPR’s Domenico Montanaro. thank you.
Montanaro: Okay.
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